Switched Archives
June 2012
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- Joshua Fruhlinger
Misconceptions about LA. Interesting read, but kinda whiney. http://t.co/jEqHw3ts
- Tim Stevens
The people responsible for this tremendous geographical oversight have been sacked.
- Tim Stevens
In future years we will call this series "Gadget Guide for That Season that Happens in June."
- Tim Stevens
I've just been informed by an offended commenter that, in some parts of the world, it isn't actually summer right now, but rather winter.
Gadget News
- Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy
- NVIDIA GeForce R302 drivers get Windows 8 certification, available for download soon
- Cisco sues TiVo to nullify four DVR patents, claims TiVo's just a big meanie
- Denon turns up the volume with 11 new headphone models featuring iOS app integration
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
(Unverified)Dec 26th 2008 12:45PM
Miss New England,
Yes, in the strictest sense "for which" would be correct. But as we all know, English is always evolving and adapting itself to an ever-changing world. Certain rules that used to be "iron-clad right and wrong" have softened. One is the rule that says not to end a sentence with a preposition. Modern spoken English does not lend itself to what is actually a clumsy construction.
I'm sure you know the famous quote from British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. He was criticized by a journalist for saying "This is something I will not put up with." The journalist pointed out that he had ended his sentence with a preposition. Mr. Churchill re-phrased his comment. "This is something with which I will not put up." The journalist *again* pointed out that the sentence ended with a preposition. An exasperated Mr. Churchill finally said: "This is something up with which I will not put." So...for the sake of clarity and brevity, English has allowed us to "bend the rule" a little. We can indeed end sentences with prepositions, we can use less stilted and clumsy constructions such as "for which" and we can split an infinitive if we find that to actually do that helps make the meaning of our sentence more clear. (That was a joke, by the way)
I love English for its flexibility, for its colorfulness of expression, and for its very ability to paint vivid word pictures and images.
I welcome discussion with whomever would like to explore this issue further, either here at this venue or by individual email.
I look foreward to any comments anyone may have.
Bernie Zuccarelli
Seattle, WA
(Unverified)Dec 27th 2008 9:02PM
Bernie...I think you have way too much time on your hands! Why not put your efforts into something worthwhile. You are not going to change how people write on the Internet. If you're trying to prove your'e educated then you've succeeded. Although, when someone corrects what you have written you "bend" the rules, yet you tell someone else to check out a 5th grade English book. Please, get real and get a life. By the way, I didn't use spell check. So if it gives you pleasure, knock your socks off at criticizing anything I've written, but don't forget to "bend" the rules.
(Unverified)Dec 27th 2008 9:51PM
Bernie, I left you a reply on the 27th. :)
(Unverified)Dec 27th 2008 11:29PM
Bernie,
I have to say I enjoyed reading your comments more than the actual story. That's saying a lot about AOL.
Anyway, about the Churchill quotes. On his first revision, "with which I will not put up," is the word up really functioning as a preposition? No, because it is not describing a noun phrase; therefore, making it gramatically correct.
This is my way of calling that journalist an idiot. :)
Kristin
(Unverified)Dec 28th 2008 2:28AM
Are you the same BagTheMan who posted on the AOL relationship boards several years ago? If so, welcome back! It's great reading your posts again.
(Unverified)Dec 28th 2008 4:03PM
Henry,
Yes, I used to be Bagman some years ago. I still use that name for certain applications, but not for as many as I used to. How did you remember that?
At the risk of offending some of the folks who post here, I don't visit sites such as this very often. I think the content of my post tells you why.
As far as teachers go, they have gotten lazy as well. I asked an English teacher what she thought of what we have been writing about here. She said, "We teach it. We can't help it if the kids don't learn it." How about that?
And yes, I'm a fairly well-educated man. I hold two degrees in communication studies, both of which I completed after I turned forty years of age. I wrote for the student newspapers at both colleges. I also created, produced, and hosted the early-morning radio program at the college where I got my BA. I am very proud of these accomplishments.
Nobody should ever be mocked for being educated.
I thank all the "old-fashioned" folks for their supportive responses. All we can do is what we have been doing, and hope that some of the others catch on.
Bernie Zuccarelli
Seattle, WA
(Unverified)Dec 31st 2008 8:58AM
Bernie, I agree with you almost completely, except for a few things: First, you criticize people for any (regardless of how minor) failing to meet exacting standards of proper grammar and usage of the English language, then justify your own failings, by saying that it is ok to 'bend the rules' under certain circumstances...one way or the other my friend. Secondly, FOREWARD is that part of book which comes before the actual text of the book, written by someone else to introduce the book. I believe you meant to say you are looking FORWARD to discussion.
(Unverified)Jan 1st 2009 4:59PM
Jeff,
I'm as open to constructive criticism as the next guy, and I appreciate all the input I have gotten on this subject. (Yes, there is a great big "but" on the way)
Why is it that folks insist on using "secondly" when they don't use "firstly" at the start of the series of points they are making? And most don't use "thirdly" for the next item in that series? I have always wondered about that.
The part of the book that comes before the main text is spelled "Foreword" and you can crack open a book and check on that. I will cop to the "Forward" mistake and take my lumps graciously.
Bernie Zuccarelli
Seattle, WA